tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3589584519526504038.post3536284664976619815..comments2023-10-26T03:11:23.152-04:00Comments on Nine Worlds, Ten Thousand Things: L is for Literature, and LazinessJenniehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06589550267781293462noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3589584519526504038.post-1509099669003325232012-01-09T21:47:59.634-05:002012-01-09T21:47:59.634-05:00@TheSwordOfFire - Thanks so much. The Tolkien quot...@TheSwordOfFire - Thanks so much. The Tolkien quote is marvelous. <br /><br />For those of you who haven't run across it yet, TheSwordOfFire has a very interesting series of posts running on <a href="http://theswordoffire.wordpress.com/2011/12/22/high_fantasy_medieval_model/" rel="nofollow">his blog</a> right now discussing the relationship of Fantasy and SF. It's worth checking out.Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06589550267781293462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3589584519526504038.post-30995048615018476102012-01-09T21:20:52.075-05:002012-01-09T21:20:52.075-05:00Well writen and thought out article Jennie. There ...Well writen and thought out article Jennie. There does seem to be an antagonism by some Sci-Fi fans and authors towards fantasy. Here's how Tolkien put your argument.<br /><br />“In using Escape [... fantasy literature] critics have chosen the wrong word, and, what is more, they are confusing, not always by sincere error, the Escape of the Prisoner with the Flight of the Deserter.” — J.R.R. TolkienAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3589584519526504038.post-9641811012689209112011-04-27T00:19:51.768-04:002011-04-27T00:19:51.768-04:00James,
I just want to clarify that I agree with ...James, <br /><br />I just want to clarify that I agree with your assessment of my idea as essentially indicating that fantasy tends to be more normative and SF more descriptive, and I thank you for pointing that relationship out. I just don't know that it will be helpful in dealing with works that straddle the boundary, because authors are so pesky about ignoring our neat categories.<br /><br />My original comment leaves a lot to be desired. I <i>really</i> shouldn't post at 2:00 am (which is why I am shutting up now and leaving the in-depth discussion for later!)Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06589550267781293462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3589584519526504038.post-35434386715336251422011-04-26T02:19:52.769-04:002011-04-26T02:19:52.769-04:00James,
I can't tell you how glad I am that yo...James,<br /><br />I can't tell you how glad I am that you enjoy my stuff. Thanks!<br /><br />This topic deserves quite a bit more time than I am able to give it right now. I'll take a very brief stab at it, with the avowed intention to come back later when I can really give it the thought it deserves. <br /><br />The boundaries between Fantasy and SF are fairly fluid and blurry, and there are many works that straddle the line. I don't know that the normative/descriptive dichotomy will act as a better filter to separate them out than any other that has been devised.<br /><br /><i>Brave New World</i> and other dystopian/utopian worlds might fit better under the fantasy classification, but, from my perspective, it really depends on the individual story and how and why it was written. Utopias and dystopias vary a great deal with respect to how they approach the normative/descriptive question, and in how much they rely on fantastic elements as opposed to applications and extrapolations of scientific knowledge. To further complicate matters, I think there is a lot of fairly obvious political allegory and satire that gets shelved under the headings of both Fantasy and Science Fiction, and I think that a number of the most famous examples, such as <i>1984</i> and <i>Brave New World</i> are described as "science fiction" simply because they use a nominally futuristic setting and technological symbols to represent political and social trends of the time and as reification of the ideals being promoted by some factions, when no one would dream of putting <i>Animal Farm</i> in the same classification as James Herriot's books just because they both have farms and animals in them. <br /><br />I'm looking forward to thinking and talking about this further.Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06589550267781293462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3589584519526504038.post-61913225729086764052011-04-24T18:58:38.264-04:002011-04-24T18:58:38.264-04:00Hi Jennie, I've seen you write often over at P...Hi Jennie, I've seen you write often over at Porky's, and I just came from commenting on Brin's article. I always enjoy your stuff.<br /><br />I'm actually a philosopher in a centre for public ethics here in Canberra, and your definition of the difference between SF and fantasy is pretty well congruent with two main approaches to ethics that philosophical systems have: normative and descriptive. Normative approaches seek to discover what we should do according to some rules or principles, and descriptive approaches seek to describe what people <i>actually</i> do or think when they think and act morally.<br /><br />Your idea seems to suggest that fantasy is ethically normative and SF descriptive. Interesting, and I think maybe spot on. Descriptive fantasy is a contradiction. <br /><br />I think there's some SF though that is concerned with the way things should be. Dystopian/utopian stories for example. Should Brave New World be classified as fantasy perhaps?beat roninhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01716307613961196056noreply@blogger.com